1 TImothy 2:12
but to remain quiet.
“Quiet” is the same Greek word as above. The word quietly does not necessarily mean not speaking (although it can), but an attitude of quietness and peaceful living. It is also in verse 11 and 2 Thessalonians 3:2. This is the second time Paul commands for women to be quiet in this section. Paul has given this idea emphasis and indicates that this is important and not to be ignored. It is to be obeyed.
- Even though this word does not necessarily indicate speaking (although it could), in light of its being used twice and 1Corinthians 14:34, 35, we must consider that 1 Corinthians 14:34, 35 is further explanation of what it means to be silent. And that the idea of not speaking is possible.
Showing posts with label 1 Timothy 2:12. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 1 Timothy 2:12. Show all posts
Sunday, November 25, 2007
1 Timothy 2:12, "over a man"
1 Timothy 2:12
over a man,
This verse only excludes women from having authority over a man. It does not include other women or children. This phrase seems to specifically be in conjunction with “exercise authority”. If this verse is translated in the order that the Greek has it, it would say something like “But to teach, a woman, I do not permit, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.” I, however, don’t think this is means that there is a general prohibition for women not to teach, I think it, too, is restricted to teaching men.
This verse also says “a man” instead of “men” I think this is significant because it is not just excluding women from the pastoral role of having authority over “men” or the congregation, but is restricting women from having any position within the church where they would be having authority over “a man”.
Some would say that it is ok if a woman has authority over a man if she has a man having authority over her or as a “mother” would have authority over children, so a woman can have authority over men in the church. This is making up an exception that the scripture does not allow for. And in fact the use of the word “man” instead of “men” demonstrates that this is not an allowance given by the scripture. Paul closes out any argument that could come against this. A woman is not to have authority over any man in the church whether he is in a position of authority or not, there are no exceptions given here or elsewhere. In other words, the relationship of a woman to other men in the church should not be one of authority. This leaves no allowance for women to have authority over a man in any circumstance including if she has a man that has authority over her.
This however does not mean that there is not a relationship of respect and honor between a man and a woman. To continue with the thought of being a “mother” in the church: A mother only has authority over her child while he is a child. But once he becomes a man, he has authority, especially if his father has died. The mother still, however should be respected and her council valued by her adult son (It is clear in scripture that the son is a fool if he does not value his mother), but she no longer has authority over the son. It is the same way in the church. A woman is not to have authority over an adult man. She can be a mother in the church, even to adult men, but she is not to have authority over a man. (1 Timothy 5:1 – it is also clear here that being a “mother” in the church does not imply authority). Although women do not have authority, they, however, are to be respected and valued and if older treated as mothers and given the high respect that comes with that. It is important to have “mothers” in the church. It is necessary to have “mothers” in the church. And it is commanded by God that there be “mothers” in the church. Augustine’s mother is a good example of this (her example is given under my discussion on 1 Peter 3).
Women are to be valued and respected in the church; their opinions and insight are to be taken seriously. God has made women because we need their insight. We don’t do so well with out them. Also if we do not value and respect women, God will not hear the prayers of us men.
over a man,
This verse only excludes women from having authority over a man. It does not include other women or children. This phrase seems to specifically be in conjunction with “exercise authority”. If this verse is translated in the order that the Greek has it, it would say something like “But to teach, a woman, I do not permit, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence.” I, however, don’t think this is means that there is a general prohibition for women not to teach, I think it, too, is restricted to teaching men.
This verse also says “a man” instead of “men” I think this is significant because it is not just excluding women from the pastoral role of having authority over “men” or the congregation, but is restricting women from having any position within the church where they would be having authority over “a man”.
Some would say that it is ok if a woman has authority over a man if she has a man having authority over her or as a “mother” would have authority over children, so a woman can have authority over men in the church. This is making up an exception that the scripture does not allow for. And in fact the use of the word “man” instead of “men” demonstrates that this is not an allowance given by the scripture. Paul closes out any argument that could come against this. A woman is not to have authority over any man in the church whether he is in a position of authority or not, there are no exceptions given here or elsewhere. In other words, the relationship of a woman to other men in the church should not be one of authority. This leaves no allowance for women to have authority over a man in any circumstance including if she has a man that has authority over her.
This however does not mean that there is not a relationship of respect and honor between a man and a woman. To continue with the thought of being a “mother” in the church: A mother only has authority over her child while he is a child. But once he becomes a man, he has authority, especially if his father has died. The mother still, however should be respected and her council valued by her adult son (It is clear in scripture that the son is a fool if he does not value his mother), but she no longer has authority over the son. It is the same way in the church. A woman is not to have authority over an adult man. She can be a mother in the church, even to adult men, but she is not to have authority over a man. (1 Timothy 5:1 – it is also clear here that being a “mother” in the church does not imply authority). Although women do not have authority, they, however, are to be respected and valued and if older treated as mothers and given the high respect that comes with that. It is important to have “mothers” in the church. It is necessary to have “mothers” in the church. And it is commanded by God that there be “mothers” in the church. Augustine’s mother is a good example of this (her example is given under my discussion on 1 Peter 3).
Women are to be valued and respected in the church; their opinions and insight are to be taken seriously. God has made women because we need their insight. We don’t do so well with out them. Also if we do not value and respect women, God will not hear the prayers of us men.
1 Timothy 2:12, "excersise authority"
exercise authority
This word is only used here in the scripture so it is difficult to get its full meaning, but it is used in other transcripts. The word authority means, “2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic 3) an absolute master 4) to govern, exercise dominion over one”. The idea of the word is “to have authority”. Simply stated a woman is not to “exercise authority over a man.”
Recently this word for authority was place through a search of greek literature and was found that it was used elsewhere in to mean “authority”, so this is a proper translation of the greek.
This word is only used here in the scripture so it is difficult to get its full meaning, but it is used in other transcripts. The word authority means, “2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic 3) an absolute master 4) to govern, exercise dominion over one”. The idea of the word is “to have authority”. Simply stated a woman is not to “exercise authority over a man.”
Recently this word for authority was place through a search of greek literature and was found that it was used elsewhere in to mean “authority”, so this is a proper translation of the greek.
1 Timothy 2:12, "or"
1 Timothy 2:12
“or”
It may seem ridiculous to talk about the word “or” but every word of these verses have been contested and some would say that “or” is a conjunction that absolutely puts these two ideas together meaning that authority and teaching must be taken together and not separately. In other words both must be present in order for the action to be prohibited. This however is not the meaning of the conduction “or”. Here is the meaning:
If we look to see how “or” is used elsewhere in the New Testament, we find it can mean two exclusive non- connecting things, neither of which will be connected with the subject that is talked about. For example, Mattew 6:26 “Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? In this passage “sow”, “reap” and “gather” are not meant to imply one action, but instead it is to imply that all are connected to actions that fowls do not do. Here are some more verses that confirm this:
Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall 0 not be able to gainsay nor 3761 resist. They will not be able to do this and they will not be able to do this.
In this verses to teach and to have authority are two separate actions that Paul does not allow women to do. A more direct translation of the word order in the Greek is “But to teach, a woman, I do not permit, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence”, which gives more of the idea that these are two separate actions that Paul is talking about.
What type of authority is being addressed here? Governing?
Also if this verse was limited to an Elder or Preacher why didn’t Paul just say that instead of using functional language and not title.
“or”
It may seem ridiculous to talk about the word “or” but every word of these verses have been contested and some would say that “or” is a conjunction that absolutely puts these two ideas together meaning that authority and teaching must be taken together and not separately. In other words both must be present in order for the action to be prohibited. This however is not the meaning of the conduction “or”. Here is the meaning:
If we look to see how “or” is used elsewhere in the New Testament, we find it can mean two exclusive non- connecting things, neither of which will be connected with the subject that is talked about. For example, Mattew 6:26 “Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? In this passage “sow”, “reap” and “gather” are not meant to imply one action, but instead it is to imply that all are connected to actions that fowls do not do. Here are some more verses that confirm this:
Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk 21:15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall 0 not be able to gainsay nor 3761 resist. They will not be able to do this and they will not be able to do this.
In this verses to teach and to have authority are two separate actions that Paul does not allow women to do. A more direct translation of the word order in the Greek is “But to teach, a woman, I do not permit, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in silence”, which gives more of the idea that these are two separate actions that Paul is talking about.
What type of authority is being addressed here? Governing?
Also if this verse was limited to an Elder or Preacher why didn’t Paul just say that instead of using functional language and not title.
1 Timothy 2:12, "to teach"
1 Timothy 2:12
12But I do not allow a woman to teach
The word to teach means, “1) to teach a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses b) to be a teacher c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one a) to impart instruction b) instill doctrine into one c) the thing taught or enjoined d) to explain or expound a thing f) to teach one something”.
The term here is functional and not positional. If this were to be limited to Elder or a Preacher why does it not use those terms, the terms here are functional not positional, and therefore we must not be quick to make them mean positions, rather than actions.
Why does Paul say “I”, is this his personal opinion or God’s? Earlier Paul says as an apostle “I”. So is this a statement based on his authority as an apostle.
12But I do not allow a woman to teach
The word to teach means, “1) to teach a) to hold discourse with others in order to instruct them, deliver didactic discourses b) to be a teacher c) to discharge the office of a teacher, conduct one's self as a teacher 2) to teach one a) to impart instruction b) instill doctrine into one c) the thing taught or enjoined d) to explain or expound a thing f) to teach one something”.
The term here is functional and not positional. If this were to be limited to Elder or a Preacher why does it not use those terms, the terms here are functional not positional, and therefore we must not be quick to make them mean positions, rather than actions.
Why does Paul say “I”, is this his personal opinion or God’s? Earlier Paul says as an apostle “I”. So is this a statement based on his authority as an apostle.
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