1 Corinthians 14:34
Just as the Law also says.
Every time the Greek for the word law in this text is used it is used to describe the scriptures and the commands of God. For example, in the same chapter verse 21, "‘In the Law it is written, "By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to me,’ says the Lord." This means that Paul is commanding the women to "subject themselves" because it is the scripture and God that commands it. This is not an option nor is Paul commanding it based on the culture of the time, but instead on the lasting principles of the Word of God.
It is probable that Paul is here referring to Geneses 2 and 3 for these are the same passages referred to in 1 Timothy 2:13, 14.
Showing posts with label 1 Corinthians 14:34. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 1 Corinthians 14:34. Show all posts
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
1 Corinthians 14:34, "subject"
1 Corinthians 14:34
but are to subject themselves,
Instead of speaking women are to subject themselves. The word subject here is the same Greek word used in many other passages and also where a wife is told to be in submissive to her husband (Eph. 5:22; Col 3:18; 1Cor 3:34; Titus 2:5; 1 Peter 3:1, 5). It means to be submissive. We see this idea also in 1 Corinthians 11 and 1 Timothy 2 and elsewhere. This is clearly a command from the Lord (from the evidence of the scripture) and God’s intent from the beginning of creation and not a cultural bias. Women are to subject themselves, because it is the heart of the Lord that they do so. Paul says, "just as the Law says".
but are to subject themselves,
Instead of speaking women are to subject themselves. The word subject here is the same Greek word used in many other passages and also where a wife is told to be in submissive to her husband (Eph. 5:22; Col 3:18; 1Cor 3:34; Titus 2:5; 1 Peter 3:1, 5). It means to be submissive. We see this idea also in 1 Corinthians 11 and 1 Timothy 2 and elsewhere. This is clearly a command from the Lord (from the evidence of the scripture) and God’s intent from the beginning of creation and not a cultural bias. Women are to subject themselves, because it is the heart of the Lord that they do so. Paul says, "just as the Law says".
1 Corinthians 14:34, "not permited to speak"
For they are not permitted to speak,
They are to be silent because they are not permitted to speak. The command for women to be silent is given a reason here – "for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves". The Greek for the word "speak" means simply to speak or talk. It is used in this text for public speaking, which is involved throughout this passage. This does not prohibit worship or corporate expressions such as cooperate praying or cooperate speaking in tongues or corporate prophesying as in Acts 2. It does allow for cooperate expressions in the church, as is seen in other places and here in scripture. The context of speech here within this chapter is public speaking in the assembly.
-- It is obvious that the women here are commanded to be silent in the churches, because they are to be in subjection, for this is what the scriptures says, but why does Paul say they are not permitted to speak? Is this an emphatic expression confirming that they are not to speak, so that there will be no misunderstanding of what Paul means. In a sense saying "Women are not to be silent, let me repeat that so you understand and there is no confusion, they are not permitted to speak." Or is Paul telling the women that because they are not permitted to speak and are to be in subjection they are to be silent. This would still mean that women are never to teach or have authority, but on top of that they are to be subject to the rules placed on them. Later Paul says that it is shameful for a woman to speak. These possible points need to be addressed fully and are significant to understanding these verses.
I do not think we should be quick to cancel out these verses. We must remember that these words are God breathed. They come from God! They are not wasted words. They are here because they are important and meaningful. It may be that women are not to speak in the church. (And something that cannot be argued is that Paul was telling the women in the all the churches of his day not to speak. This is abundantly clear. So that must be taken seriously.) I think sometimes we are so bound by our cultural perspectives and by the world that tie us down in chains and miss out on the great freedom, goodness and beauty of the Lord. We should not be afraid, if God is saying that women should not speak in the church, for He is good and we can trust that it is for our good, even if we don’t understand it. It does seem to be clear that the upfront statement here in these verses is that women are not to speak in the church. We cannot evade that. And if we try to cancel that out because it makes us feel uncomfortable, we are doing a great grievance and injustice to the scripture and telling God that we do not trust Him. It is hard for me, but we should not disregard or disobey God’s word lightly. Unless one can come up with a strong case for women to be allowed to speak, then we should obey the teaching of these verses and honor God and trust His word.
-- Personal note: I do not feel comfortable with not allowing women to speak. I am having a hard time with that and it’s a strong struggle for me. But my trust in God must come above what I feel or want. I would rather trust God and not have women speaking and err (if it is an "err") on the side of obedience, than to base my actions or interpretation on what I feel and neglect or take lightly God’s word. I don’t have the definite word on this yet, I don’t know whether women should or should not speak at all. At this point I could make a strong case for both sides from these scriptures. I still have some questions that I am taking before the Lord on this, and I don’t want to be quick to make a stand on this. But when it comes to a trust issue, do I trust God?
- -The question needs to be "How do I obey these verses?" "Am I obeying these verses?" not "How do I prove them wrong?"
In 1 Peter 3 Paul says that women are to win over there own ungodly husbands through there conduct, without a word. The Proverbs 31 women influenced the city gates by her conduct without speaking a word at the city gates. (I think there is a beauty in this as there is in a flower; a captivating and strong beauty.) If God is commanding women not to speak, it is not a great hindrance. Power of God does not come from the "wise" or the "strong" things of this world. And we should not put our hopes on those things. I do not believe it is those who teach or have authority that have the most influence, but those who are lowly and live out the Gospel and the Word with their lives. This is where real strength is. Personally for me I do not see God using me in power by my seeking to speak or to have authority. I don’t think that I would have more influence, if I were a pastor or a leader. My strength and influence comes not from speaking or having authority, but from faithfully living out God’s word. It is not my purpose to be great, but instead to make Him great. And in the church it is not for me to build my self up to greatness, but to serve and build up others to greatness. This is my treasure. This is my reward in the Lord.
They are to be silent because they are not permitted to speak. The command for women to be silent is given a reason here – "for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves". The Greek for the word "speak" means simply to speak or talk. It is used in this text for public speaking, which is involved throughout this passage. This does not prohibit worship or corporate expressions such as cooperate praying or cooperate speaking in tongues or corporate prophesying as in Acts 2. It does allow for cooperate expressions in the church, as is seen in other places and here in scripture. The context of speech here within this chapter is public speaking in the assembly.
-- It is obvious that the women here are commanded to be silent in the churches, because they are to be in subjection, for this is what the scriptures says, but why does Paul say they are not permitted to speak? Is this an emphatic expression confirming that they are not to speak, so that there will be no misunderstanding of what Paul means. In a sense saying "Women are not to be silent, let me repeat that so you understand and there is no confusion, they are not permitted to speak." Or is Paul telling the women that because they are not permitted to speak and are to be in subjection they are to be silent. This would still mean that women are never to teach or have authority, but on top of that they are to be subject to the rules placed on them. Later Paul says that it is shameful for a woman to speak. These possible points need to be addressed fully and are significant to understanding these verses.
I do not think we should be quick to cancel out these verses. We must remember that these words are God breathed. They come from God! They are not wasted words. They are here because they are important and meaningful. It may be that women are not to speak in the church. (And something that cannot be argued is that Paul was telling the women in the all the churches of his day not to speak. This is abundantly clear. So that must be taken seriously.) I think sometimes we are so bound by our cultural perspectives and by the world that tie us down in chains and miss out on the great freedom, goodness and beauty of the Lord. We should not be afraid, if God is saying that women should not speak in the church, for He is good and we can trust that it is for our good, even if we don’t understand it. It does seem to be clear that the upfront statement here in these verses is that women are not to speak in the church. We cannot evade that. And if we try to cancel that out because it makes us feel uncomfortable, we are doing a great grievance and injustice to the scripture and telling God that we do not trust Him. It is hard for me, but we should not disregard or disobey God’s word lightly. Unless one can come up with a strong case for women to be allowed to speak, then we should obey the teaching of these verses and honor God and trust His word.
-- Personal note: I do not feel comfortable with not allowing women to speak. I am having a hard time with that and it’s a strong struggle for me. But my trust in God must come above what I feel or want. I would rather trust God and not have women speaking and err (if it is an "err") on the side of obedience, than to base my actions or interpretation on what I feel and neglect or take lightly God’s word. I don’t have the definite word on this yet, I don’t know whether women should or should not speak at all. At this point I could make a strong case for both sides from these scriptures. I still have some questions that I am taking before the Lord on this, and I don’t want to be quick to make a stand on this. But when it comes to a trust issue, do I trust God?
- -The question needs to be "How do I obey these verses?" "Am I obeying these verses?" not "How do I prove them wrong?"
In 1 Peter 3 Paul says that women are to win over there own ungodly husbands through there conduct, without a word. The Proverbs 31 women influenced the city gates by her conduct without speaking a word at the city gates. (I think there is a beauty in this as there is in a flower; a captivating and strong beauty.) If God is commanding women not to speak, it is not a great hindrance. Power of God does not come from the "wise" or the "strong" things of this world. And we should not put our hopes on those things. I do not believe it is those who teach or have authority that have the most influence, but those who are lowly and live out the Gospel and the Word with their lives. This is where real strength is. Personally for me I do not see God using me in power by my seeking to speak or to have authority. I don’t think that I would have more influence, if I were a pastor or a leader. My strength and influence comes not from speaking or having authority, but from faithfully living out God’s word. It is not my purpose to be great, but instead to make Him great. And in the church it is not for me to build my self up to greatness, but to serve and build up others to greatness. This is my treasure. This is my reward in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 14:34, "churches"
1 Corinthians 14:34
In the churches;
This command, "to be silent", does not just apply only to the Corinthian church or to a specific situation or circumstance, but to all the churches within Christendom. This is also made clear in 1 Corinthian 11 and 2 Timothy 2. To assume that it is only applying to a situation within the church at Corinth and only to the Corinthian church would be a serious error to the facts of this verse and other verses. Paul is clear that this was the custom and command in all the churches, "The women are to keep silent".
Some would say that 1 Corinthians 14 and 2 Timothy 2 only apply to a formal church meeting, however, the early church met in settings that were informal and in small groups. The idea that this does not apply in other church settings such as small groups (or "life groups, "city groups", or any other term) is not a biblical or a historically accurate view of the church. These commands apply anytime the church is assembled together.
In the churches;
This command, "to be silent", does not just apply only to the Corinthian church or to a specific situation or circumstance, but to all the churches within Christendom. This is also made clear in 1 Corinthian 11 and 2 Timothy 2. To assume that it is only applying to a situation within the church at Corinth and only to the Corinthian church would be a serious error to the facts of this verse and other verses. Paul is clear that this was the custom and command in all the churches, "The women are to keep silent".
Some would say that 1 Corinthians 14 and 2 Timothy 2 only apply to a formal church meeting, however, the early church met in settings that were informal and in small groups. The idea that this does not apply in other church settings such as small groups (or "life groups, "city groups", or any other term) is not a biblical or a historically accurate view of the church. These commands apply anytime the church is assembled together.
1 Corinthians 14:34, "silent"
1 Corinthians 14:34
Are to keep silent
The Greek word for silence in this verse means "1) to keep silence, hold one’s peace, 2) to be kept in silence, be concealed". In every case except two it is used in a manner that the person is quiet in order to allow another to speak or in order to not interrupt, fitting with the first definition (Luke 20:26; Acts 12:17, 15:12,13; 1 Cr 14:28,30,34). This word is used three times in this chapter and each time in this manner. A person is told to keep silent if there is no interpreter. The second time they are told to keep silent if another has a revelation. And the third time for women. These verses are dealing with when it is and when it is not appropriate to speak in the church publicly. It says it is not appropriate for a woman to speak in the assembly, without specification to a situation. Women are told to keep silent and not to speak out.
In the other two cases the word is used in the sense of the second definition "to be kept in silence, be concealed" (Rom 16:25; Luke 9:36).
Are to keep silent
The Greek word for silence in this verse means "1) to keep silence, hold one’s peace, 2) to be kept in silence, be concealed". In every case except two it is used in a manner that the person is quiet in order to allow another to speak or in order to not interrupt, fitting with the first definition (Luke 20:26; Acts 12:17, 15:12,13; 1 Cr 14:28,30,34). This word is used three times in this chapter and each time in this manner. A person is told to keep silent if there is no interpreter. The second time they are told to keep silent if another has a revelation. And the third time for women. These verses are dealing with when it is and when it is not appropriate to speak in the church publicly. It says it is not appropriate for a woman to speak in the assembly, without specification to a situation. Women are told to keep silent and not to speak out.
In the other two cases the word is used in the sense of the second definition "to be kept in silence, be concealed" (Rom 16:25; Luke 9:36).
1 Corinthians 14:34, "women"
1 Corinthians 14:34
34The women
In the Greek the word "συ", which is in the genitive case and means "of yours" is used with the word women, so as to say "your women" which is how it is translated in the King James. The NU Greek translation omits "συ”. This “συ” if included could mean women of the church in general or wives. Although in this case it does not seem to change much of the understanding of the verses. It is unlikely that a woman in the church would be treated differently based on whether or not she was married or not, and 1 Timothy 2 and the fact that there is no differentiation elsewhere seems to confirm this.
34The women
In the Greek the word "συ", which is in the genitive case and means "of yours" is used with the word women, so as to say "your women" which is how it is translated in the King James. The NU Greek translation omits "συ”. This “συ” if included could mean women of the church in general or wives. Although in this case it does not seem to change much of the understanding of the verses. It is unlikely that a woman in the church would be treated differently based on whether or not she was married or not, and 1 Timothy 2 and the fact that there is no differentiation elsewhere seems to confirm this.
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